What do we Believe?

[Kirk]

I passed yesterday mostly in thought on my farm, while watching the cowboys play another sorry game, and pull out the win. My thoughts were much about this forum, which I am new too. I was thinking what do we believe? The collective we of this forum, which has a mutual agreement that what was said to have happened in Dallas some 46 years ago, was not what happened. I wonder if there is a way that we could have a Post for voting on how certain subjects, which may or may not be contested. A post where anyone that wants to put forward their argument or evidence pro or con could do so, and then everybody would vote on it. And then move on to the next contested subject. Of course in a way it wouldn't be completely fair. Because my vote might be equal, but less informed than others on here, but maybe in total it would help to clear some things up, so we could focus on others.Some of you might have better ideas of how to do this, or reasons why not to do it.Thanks

[tom jeffers]

kirk,i am not sure exactly what it is you are trying to accomplish. we have people on here that do not believe that jimmy took the shot. there is a wide divergence in our beliefs. the only thing we can all agree on is that someone other than oswald fired a rifle that day at jfk. the rest is subjective discourse.Tom

[ChristophMessner]

Don't we vote on opinions and statements in posts by our comments already? Which belief about what in specific do you have in mind? I believe that doing research and discussion about the jfk-murder-case helps getting more knowledge about who is really in power about what in general and getting more motivation for focussing life on the resistance power against misuse of power.

[Kirk]

Tom,I understand and that is true of course, but we could bring our best debate, and thoughts to it, and maybe convince one way or the other. Personally I think Mr. Files is involved, but I personally not sure what his actual role might have been. It is just a thought. I have noted a number of intelligent people on different sides of certain issues, and agreeing the other etc. Might come to just a common understanding of the issues and sides, and maybe not any agreement. Understanding and agreement are two things to me.Just a thoughtThanks,Kirktom jeffers wrote:kirk,i am not sure exactly what it is you are trying to accomplish. we have people on here that do not believe that jimmy took the shot. there is a wide divergence in our beliefs. the only thing we can all agree on is that someone other than oswald fired a rifle that day at jfk. the rest is subjective discourse.Tom

[Dealey Joe]

I think what Kirk is trying to get at is there is no way to organise thoughts on any one subject or group of subjects.Makes it hard for us new comers to keep things in order.I started a topic of What do we know hoping to get a list but it is hard for the more knowledgible guys to go back to square one.

[Kirk]

Chris,Maybe we are voting by looking at some post and not others, and posting about somethings and not others. I agree with your beliefs about power. My thought was only about focus, and understanding to see where everybody is at, or where we are not.ThanksKirkPS feel like a busy body, but that is probably my nature. I like to get the experts together, and have them talk it out for people like me.ChristophMessner wrote:Don't we vote on opinions and statements in posts by our comments already? Which belief about what in specific do you have in mind? I believe that doing research and discussion about the jfk-murder-case helps getting more knowledge about who is really in power about what in general and getting more motivation for focussing life on the resistance power against misuse of power.

[Kirk]

Dealey Joe,Yep, I think that is it. Maybe the experts instead could argue the case from start to finish. The experts on here know who is who, and what they believe by now. Such Orlando Bosch sitting on the curb. Is it him or not? I feel like now it is, but is it? Phillips at the Osward press conference? I don't think it is, but is it or not?Dealey Joe wrote:I think what Kirk is trying to get at is there is no way to organise thoughts on any one subject or group of subjects.Makes it hard for us new comers to keep things in order.I started a topic of What do we know hoping to get a list but it is hard for the more knowledgible guys to go back to square one.

[Dealey Joe]

For instance,I beleive that James Files is telling the truth.he may not be telling everything but he does not owe us that.I will be very hard to convince to change my mind.To me when someone says "I DONE IT"I tend to beleive them untill all the facts are checked out to see where it all fits. then I make up my mind and do not shake off it easily.I think Jimmy has passed the test and has the most credibility.To me it is easier to pursure a positive than a negative.A lot of time your common sense will give you big clues.It is hard for me to get past the basics,I am not a good researcher nor a great reader of books.I tried to read some JFK books but to me it was too repetitious.I mostly watch vidios

[andries]

Joe I think there are also people like me who are almost done with with JFK stuff,but you want all the answers before you really grow old I also think that there are a lot off good reseachers on this forum who perhaps could make progress with interesting new pieces off the puzzle I,m not a good reseacher,but i have read a lott.and are facinated half my life that,s sadly 25 years,and i cannot 100 % rule out that most i have read is pure crap.It,s nearly highly mathematics but also psychologie,political science and logic assuming all in one.Ever since a long time there is nothing that can change my opinion or who i believe, simply because it,s most unlikely and totaly conflicts with everything that we know or that we read.or simply is a fact.I fully believe Hoffman,he,s absolutely telling the thruth,i would almost bet my live on that, because if he is not telling the thruth it would make complete insane idiots out off lee bowers-gordon arnhold- DPD officer smith and DPD officer harkness the most important witneses and probably some more

[Dealey Joe]

AndriesI hear you, It does get hard to deal with if you are not a researcher and getting into new areas.And I certainly agree that 99% of all that people saw, heard or think is Bullshit.Human nature makes some people want to be part of whatever happened.puts them in the "know" so to speek. Their mind keeps playing with it till they totally beleivewhat they are telling. I have seen it happen.I know we are all diferent but as for me I know there are things in the past that Ithought for sure, but when I really get down to it I am not sure that maybe I didn't just dream it.Especially when I was a kid.I will never get done with the JFK affair. it was too close to me as I was just the right age when if all happenedI don't know that I will ever put it down. It also intrigues me when I see younger people who are caught upin the magic of it. It affected my life and changed things forever.I have always know that the LHO theory was bullshit and as time went on I knew it even more.I am satisfied to learn more about the central figures. What lit the fire under me was when I saw the history channeldocumentary 'The Men Who Killed Kennedy" and listened to Judyth Vary Baker.I did not know all this research was going on but her information stuck in my mind and for a few years it just kept onbothering me so I ordereed the series from History Channel but guess what, the last 3 parts were not included in it.That really got me on the trail and I was able to obtain a copy of the 3 segments,I have a habit that I can listen to or talk to someone and be able to tell if they are basically truthful.It has always worked fo me and never one time failed me.So from the JVB thing I come to find this website and am truely grateful to Wim and you all for staying in the trenches so that others can know some truth about it all. After a while it gets old and you get tired of hearing all the different theories aboutall the crap. But the real reason we do this is for the education of others and to keep their heritage alive.That is our job. we will possibly not live long enough to see all this righted but if we can keep the memories alive in the younger generations along with getting some pleasure out of doing it "WHAT A REWARD"I have to be thankful for all the people and factions involved even if I don't see eye to eye with them.even old Gary Mack is doing a job helping to keep the history going, Even though we think he is missledhe still has a story to tell and evidentslly the finances to back it up with.These people are doing this for a couple possible reasons, they are trying to cover up something or they actually beleive what they are saying, or just love to be out in front leading.either way it comes out the same.,Our job is to keep available the other side of the story backed with good evidence so people cancome find the truth. People are not stupid and the ones I saw Sunday in Dallas were very receptive and hungry for a plausable answer to all this. they don't want to take Gary mack's story as the truth.It's funny when I think about it, They are trying to prove us wrong. All we re doing is presenting the facts.Who are people who are still able to reason going to belaive.Bob Groden is not setting down there telling people THEY ARE WRONG, he just talls them here is how it is.and gives them an oportunity to learn.I have the greatest respect for Robert Groden, he has always been out on the firing line and I don't think it has beenprosporus for him. I also have great respect for people like Wim, Jim Marrs, Ed Haslam and many others who have been willing to stay out there in front and get shot at.and tell their story. It is always easy to run.It is time for others to step up to the plate.I am sure we can find a couple people to go to Dalas next year to help.another thing, this forum is just a side show for the real job this website is doing.Well enough rambling. your fault you started it!